Online meetings – some concerns

Extracts from: aagrapevine posts ( "I Say forums" "experience with AA online?" page.) http://www.aagrapevine.org/online-sobriety

Re: online meetings

Submitted by anonymous on Sat, 2012-03-24 09:52.

With regard to Traditions Six and Seven, I think it has to be made clear what is and what is not A.A. especially where the transfer of money is involved. According to information on the online intergroup website www.aa-intergroup.org it is a nonprofit corporation registered in New Jersey. I have found no evidence on the GSO website that this nonprofit corporation is part of the AA service structure. However, the online intergroup does imply this on its member’s page: "The Online Intergroup is a service entity established pursuant to Tradition Nine of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) to operate on behalf of the participating online AA groups in accordance with AA's Twelve Traditions and Twelve Concepts." http://www.aa-intergroup.org/members.php The "Tradition Seven" monies collected by the online intergroup obviously go to the New Jersey nonprofit corporation. 

I think there needs to be a greater awareness in the fellowship that private foundations and nonprofit organizations registered with the Internal Revenue Service are money making businesses which use their surplus profit to further their mission. History records that when run by alcoholics or drug addicts, these might not always be the legitimate charitable organisations that they appear to be. The leader of one such organization, which became a notorious cult in the USA during the 1960s and 1970s was interviewed by a national magazine in 1976 and quoted as saying: “Our tax-exempt privilege gives us the right, really, to hustle goods and services." Two years later in 1978, he was arrested and the Internal Revenue Service sued for $17 million in back taxes.

I would like to see some clarification from the forum moderators as to whether the online intergroup is, or is not, an official Alcoholics Anonymous corporation. If it is not, then the claims made on its website are a fraudulent misuse of the name Alcoholics Anonymous and AA members are being duped into thinking they are contributing to AA, when in fact they are contributing to an outside enterprise.

I think the future of online A.A. lies in separating the official from the unofficial; the latter being treated as AA members clubs. They must be entirely separately incorporated, giving absolutely no implication that they are A.A. I also think the AA Grapevine forums should not be used as a vehicle for endorsing outside enterprises, something which the AA Grapevine forum moderators could think about for the future, regarding Tradition Six.

Re: online meetings

Submitted by anonymous on Wed, 2012-03-28 09:25.

In addition to the above post I do not think that the New York GSO website ought to be linking to the online intergroup nonprofit corporation website when the Conference approved internet guidelines state: “Due to the lack of a central geographic location, online A.A. meetings are not a direct part of the U.S./Canada service structure.” http://aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/mg-18_internet.pdf 

The online intergroup is composed of a number websites and internet forums, some of which publicly solicit funds. Others link to recovery related businesses, or are forums on host sites which contain business adverts. I do not think it is sufficient for the General Service Board of AA World Services to cover itself with the following disclaimer on the link: “We have provided this link to facilitate information about local A.A. activities. Our links do not constitute or indicate review, endorsement, or approval. Thank you for visiting the A.A.W.S. Web site. We appreciate your interest and hope that you have found the information you were seeking.”

By its nature of being at the public level of the internet, and with international links, the online intergroup cannot be described as a local A.A. activity. The fact that there is a link from the GSO website gives the online intergroup website and all the websites linked therein, an affiliation or endorsement, actual or implied, to A.A. Therefore by providing the link the General Service Board of A.A.W.S. is in violation of Tradition Six (Long Form): “While an AA group may cooperate with anyone, such cooperation ought never go so far as affiliation or endorsement, actual or implied.” 

Relating to Traditions Six and Seven, where the transfer of money is concerned there cannot be the grey area of an organization not being a direct part of the service structure. Either it is part of the AA service structure or it isn’t. Either they are the transfer of AA funds or they are not.

Bill W was clear of the dangers of public solicitations of money on behalf of AA.

“And already there have been a few alarming attempts at the public solicitation of money in the name of Alcoholics Anonymous. Few AAs will fail to imagine where such a course could lead us.” (Bill W. AA Grapevine June 1946, The Language of the Heart page 31)

“Conservative AAs realize that business ventures or solicitations carrying the AA endorsement are truly dangerous to us all. Were this practice to become general, the lid would be off. Promoters, AA and otherwise, would have a field day.” (Bill W. AA Grapevine May 1947, The Language of the Heart page 55) 

Here is one public solicitation from one of the sites listed by the online intergroup non profit corporation website. (Dotted line indicates my removal of a name)

“You may send your contributions to: PO Box …..
You may make your checks payable to:……
…… is our Treasurer and is also a member of the Steering Committee. Any questions you may have regarding contributions can be e-mailed to him at…….. Funds are needed for renting Web server space and the balance of the funds (after prudent reserve) will be sent to GSO and to OIAA (50/50 split).

We would like to remind those wishing to contribute to …….. that AA Tradition (s) states that AA may accept donations only from members.

You may also contribute using PayPal by clicking the Donation button below. You will receive an e-mail confirmation of your contribution. PayPal is a fully secure site that allows contributions in Canadian Dollars, Euros, Pounds Sterling, U.S. Dollars, Yen, and Australian Dollars. You may use PayPal by clicking on the DONATE button below:”

I cannot see that there are the checks and balances of monetary transfers and accountability that exist in the AA Service structure. In the above case payment is being made not to AA but the website name and a private PO Box. Anybody can set up websites or internet forums and then falsify the money accounts. Unless Websites or forums are moderated by an actual intergroup, area committee, General Service Office, AA Grapevine.org or AAWS, which are part of the AA service structure, then I don’t think they can be considered to be A.A. How can accounts which are formulated online be reliably and independently validated and audited without there being any personal contact? 

Bill W was clear about of being mindful of the careful use of the world communications net, for its potential to benefit or destroy A.A. I’m not sure which influence has got the upper hand at the moment. This is a matter which has to be considered with the utmost seriousness and caution. 

AA already has a global internet forum called aagrapevine.org. I think there is further scope for AA to connect globally in unity by providing links to intergroup, Area, and GSO forums around the world on the New York GSO website; and to make these local or regional forums open to non-participant AA observers from around the world. This appears to be the case with the AA (Great Britain) GSO conference discussion forum
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/members/?PageID=256 . This has registered users from the USA, Canada, India, Ethiopia, Philippines, Honduras, Spain, Argentina, Netherlands, Austria, Fiji, Burma, Greece, Iceland , Paraguay, Honduras, Zambia, Yugoslavia, Cameroon, Armenia, Afghanistan, Brazil, Sierra Leone, France, Germany, Hungary, Estonia, Guyana, Panama among other countries. 

"A vast communications net now covers the earth, even to its remotest reaches. Granting all its huge public benefits, this limitless world forum is nevertheless a hunting ground for all those who would seek money, acclaim and power at the expense of society in general. Here the forces of good and evil are locked in struggle. All that is shoddy and destructive contests all that is best.

Therefore nothing can matter more to the future welfare of AA than the manner in which we use this colossus of communication. Used unselfishly and well, the results can surpass our present imagination. Should we handle this great instrument badly, we shall be shattered by the ego demands of our own people--often with the best of intention on their part.”

Bill W. (Extract from "Freedom Under God: The Choice Is Ours" AA Grapevine November 1960.The Language of the Heart pp 319-320)”

Comment: We contacted AAWS (International Correspondence) in an attempt to get further elucidation with respect to the Online Intergroup's connection with the service structure. Their reply was as follows:

“Dear Friends,

My name is ….... and I am the staff member on the International assignment here at the A.A. General Service Office for the U.S. and Canada . Thank you so much for being in touch and for your question about the A.A. Online Intergroup.

The A.A. Online Intergroup is listed here in the U.S./Canada, and, as you know, Intergroup and Central Offices are part of A.A. and existed before the development of the Service Structure. It is our experience that central offices and intergroups are the front line of A.A. in most communities, as often the first contact a still-suffering alcoholic makes is with an A.A. member on the phone. Similarly, the A.A. Online Intergroup is a marvelous resource of A.A. meetings worldwide that are conducted via the phone or computer. We also list the A.A. Online Intergroup on our website.

For additional sharing it is important that you contact your own General Service Office in York , at:

General Service Office Of A.A.
P O Box 1
10 Toft Green
York , Great Britain YO1 7NJ , Great Britain
Phone: Main : (44)1904-644026
Site: www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk”

(You will note that the person in question got our names wrong – “Friends”not “Fellas” - but no mind. Our follow up email included the above extracts from the I-Say forum (an AA Grapevine discussion forum). The next response was less friendly and in fact distinctly frosty (including an objection on the part of the correspondent that we had got their name wrong! Something of a side issue given the nature of the subject):

“We take no action on unsigned correspondence. Also, you are to contact your General Service Board, and they will contact ours if they believe it is necessary. I will not be able to respond to the fellas again – also, my name is …..., not …... “

What's called a diversionary tactic in counselling circles! (strange too that AAWS is insisting that people MUST identify themselves IN FULL in order to get a reply from them. Very interesting!). However we managed to discover from other sources that discussions are ongoing as to the precise nature of this “Intergroup”'s position (and accountability) in the service structure – one apparently that has been going on for some years now, and with no sign of any conclusion! We think we can see another AA 'lash up' on the way! More to come on this we're quite sure!

Cheerio

The Fellas (Friends of Alcoholics Anonymous)

PS Our last communication with AAWS was as follows:

“With reference to previous communications you may take the name John Doe as a signatory”

No reply so far – apparently “John Doe” doesn't count – poor old John!

We also contacted the Online Intergroup itself – again no reply!

PPS By the by: the Online 'Intergroup' lists (among other oddities) a 'special interest' group devoted to BDSM (ie. BonDage and Sado-Masochism for the more innocent among you!), and another which is affiliated to an outside organisation viz. Wally P's “Back to Basics” gang (it has its own foundation and is similarly registered as a “nonprofit corporation” - which does not mean incidentally that someone cannot make a tidy living out of this enterprise!) Of the two we'd opt for the BDSM connection – far less painful!